It’s very easy, when you spend any amount of time learning and writing about one area, to focus in on that niche. We may spend most of our waking lives thinking or talking about digital cameras in the dpreview office but it’s worth remembering that there’s a whole world beyond digital cameras – there are camera phones, for example.

Finnish handset giant Nokia contacted us because it considers it latest phone/camera/music player, the N86 8MP, to be its most sophisticated photographic device yet and thought we’d be interested. It was always likely that there would be some convergence between compact cameras and camera phones so we thought we’d take a quick look, to see how close this 8 megapixel camera phone brings us.

Damian Dinning has previously been a product manager and product development manager for Minolta and Kodak and has been made responsible for fine-tuning the image performance and future product guidance at Nokia.  He spoke to us about the work Nokia has been doing to develop the N86: “We’ve been focussing on low-light performance and the speed of the device. The prime mission is to record the moment in a wide range of situations.”

It’s at this point that Dinning makes his first use of the term ‘24/7,’ which occurs frequently enough in our conversation that it sound remarkably as if it might be part of the product’s ‘key messaging’:  ‘As part of a 24/7 lifestyle, you never know what situation you’ll find yourself wanting to shoot in.’ What the company has done to make the phone’s camera useful at any time is to offer a bright, wide-angle lens: 28mm equivalent with a maximum aperture of F2.4.

‘We’ve also increased the speed of the camera. We’d like to go even further with this but we’re getting pretty close to average digital compact camera responsiveness, in terms of autofocus speed, shutter lag and shot-to-shot time.’

Despite the admirably fast autofocus and the provision of a dedicated zoom rocker, our experience of the phone is that its camera mode is considerably less easy to use than a major brand compact. However, you can customise the menu to include options such as exposure compensation, which is not something you can say about many telephones.

The company’s size as, the world’s largest handset maker, does give it the luxury of being able to shop around for sensors: ‘we’re not tied to one company, our size means we can work with many different vendors and work with multiple suppliers,' he says: ‘The sensor is 1/2.5”, it’s the same as in a typical compact camera. It’s one of the latest generation CMOS sensors and is the most sensitive on the market.’

The result is a phone that suggests using its 8MP mode for producing A3 sized prints. Dinning explains: ‘We’re using noise reduction which means the files end up being smaller – the compression is about the same as a typical compact camera.’ However, we have doubts about this claim, given that the Nokia’s images tended to average around 1.2MB – rather than the roughly 3.5MB images produced by the eight megapixel compacts we looked back at.

However, it is clear that concessions have been made to ensure the images can be sensibly transferred off the camera. ‘We’ve had some 20x30” prints made and, when viewed from a normal viewing distance, they’re amazing. There’s a limit to how many poster-sized prints you can fit in your walls though. A lot of these images will be used on community and sharing sites such as Facebook, Flickr and MySpace. It comes back to usage – we have a pretty good balance between image quality and having a small file size to increase the uploading speed.’

‘Image quality is always a balance between multiple parameters,’ Dinning concedes: ‘We choose to prioritise vibrancy of colour, even though we may have compromised other areas to offer that vibrancy. We’ve conducted extensive benchmarking and have found that punchy, vibrant colour is something that people prioritise highly’

28mm equivalent ~84mm equivalent

Despite these limitations, the company clearly understands the importance of a good lens. The Carl Zeiss-branded lens module is made of four aspherical elements that are aligned during manufacture using the sensor’s image output. Each module is then calibrated individually, to take into account its alignment and this calibration data is stored on the phone. ‘It’s been quite a challenge’ says Dinning:  ‘It took us two years to develop. We work with Carl Zeiss, who have been involved right from concept through to production, pushing the quality of the lens forward.’

However, the use of a prime lens, albeit one with a useful focal length ‘for the 24/7 user’, means that the 3X zoom offered is entirely digital, which has a devastating effect on the camera’s resolution. The zoomed images are up-sampled back to 8MP, with rather interesting results.

28mm equivalent (100% crops)
~84mm equivalent (100% crops)

‘There’s no optical zoom yet,’ says Dinning: ‘there have been previous models with optical zoom but they were more of a camcorder in your pocket. The N86 8MP offers personal navigation and a really good music player as well as a camera – a broad range of capabilities. If we were to throw all those away we could perhaps free some space up for an optical zoom but we need the technology to develop a bit further before we can offer them all together.’

28mm equivalent 100% crop
~84mm equivalent100% crop

Despite this, Dinning feels the N86 8MP is ready to replace compact cameras in most situations. ‘We’re not suggesting they should be a replacement for DSLRs but in terms of where you can take it and where you’d want to take it, it has a lot to offer the 24/7 photo enthusiast. I think there’s a lot of evidence that people have been using their phones in the place of compact cameras already.’

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Comments

I believe in a few years most people will trade their compact P&S for a smartphone. I already made my smartphone my primary mp3 player, when just a few years back I had an iPod with a hard drive... But there's still a long way to go, I still haven't seen a cameraphone with IQ I can live with, even for snapshots, and the megapixel race is still going strong on this market, with 5+ MP cameras outputting 5M useless, smudged pixels, with nothing in the way of colour accuracy. That said, I've made small prints from my 3MP smartphone which I'm happy with since the alternative was no picture at all...

The problem facing mobile phone manufacturers is we now expect our mobiles to be very thin. While a fixed lens can be tiny(as they already are), decent zoom lenses need space. A cameraphone that can truly compete with a digital compact will need to be the size of a slim compact, like some Fuji and Nikon models. But the possibilities of this convergence of technologies into an N87 style smartphone with full camera spec', is very interesting and exciting.

The digital zoom is pretty darn discouraging. For one of the most sensitive CMOS sensors it is very noisy on ISO 100. I'm afraid to think what higher sensitivity results look like. Nokia phones were always my favourite, but those are phones, not mp3 players, digital cameras, or any other nonsense they dream up to put into a phone body. I also can't imagine why they need Zeiss optics in here, it doesn't help, maybe it's some kind of a marketing move. The image is smeared by noise reduction and jpeg compression, colors are far fetched and this "vibrancy" of theirs is just the saturation cranked up.
One can buy a descent slim compact or an entry level DSLR for the money they charge to put a crappy camera into this phone.

What if manufacturers turned the concept the other way round and added mobile phone technology to a digital camera? Afterall, there are several P&S cameras with WIFI, and adding 3G functionality to your P&S would allow photo and video uploading directly to facebook and youtube.

As an aside, to offer zoom, how much additional space would be required to insert a folding lens?

The promblem with cameraphones is obviously still the lens. You just can't come close to compact image quality with lens that small.

But still. Even the best camera is useless if you don't have it on you when the need comes and even the worst picture of an important subject is better than no picture. That is why I have three cameras that I use all the time. My cameraphone for improvised situations, my compact for pre-seen everyday situations and my SLR for creating and for important situations. I always have at least one camera on me.

My Sony DCS-T700 uses a folded Zeiss lens and achieves amazing image quality. The prohibitive factor here is cost, not technology or size. The 4x zoom Zeiss 12mp smartphone is gonna be next years non-iPhone 'hit'.

Been a while since I've posted. Amazing how much weasel-words proliferate here. "Obviously" is a really big one. Nothing is "obvious" when it comes to opinions.

I have the Nokia N96 with its 5MP Zeiss lens camera, and had the N82 with its 5MP Zeiss lens and xenon flash.

While the pictures the phone took were good for a camera phone, they were no where near the quality of my pocket point and shoot camera, the Canon SD850 IS. Way too much compression and very slow in operation. The phones give you pretty good choices with manual overrides though.

There's more work to be done.

The bike picture looks OK - at 50%, which roughly translates to the recommended 'A3 at normal viewing distances'.

So why on earth are they bothering with an 8mp sensor in the first place? I'm pretty sure noise reduction is eliminating more detail than a straight quartering of resolution would!

We need to figure out a way of marketing image quality instead of quantity. The mp/cm2 metrics are good, but lower is better and that's not something people are accustomed to associating with cameras.

We often make the assumption that everyone should have the same high standards for image quality that we do.

And this simply isn't true. Perhaps half the potential digital camera market is thrilled by 6MP Samsung compact that they bought at KMart.

I can see the day when everyone will want one of these as a "backup" to their backup cameras. For those times when us photo enthusiasts forget to bring a camera with us, or 100% of the time for everyone else.

My Motorola Razr has a built in 1.3 MP camera, and I never use it because the IQ is so poor and transfering photos requires an expensive optional cable.

But, if a camera can take a decent 8Mp image, then store it on a micro SD card, then why wouldn't everyone want one?

Para aquellos lectores en castellano, a lo mejor os interesa el análisis que estoy realizando del teléfono en XatakaMóvil

For those readers in Spanish,maybe you are interested in analysis I am making phone XatakaMóvil

http://www.xatakamovil.com/revision/nokia-n86-8mp-analisis-primera-parte

y muestras en flickr / samples on flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kotecinho/sets/72157620597342464/

>But, if a camera can take a decent 8Mp image, then store it on a micro SD card, then why wouldn't everyone want one?

The problem for me is that it's NOT a decent 8Mp image. It's a decent 2Mp image composed of eight million pixels. To put it another way: printed A3 size, these 8mp files would be no better than genuinely good quality 2mp shots - possibly worse because of the heavy-handed noise reduction and compression.

My first experiences with N86:

pros: 1. very nice lens for mobile phone (wide angle, quite fast, green UV filter, shutter ...)
2. good battery life

cons: 1. it is very hard to press trigger button to the second position - so many shots are "mooved"
2. strong noise reduction at low ISO too, a bit "watercolored" pictures
3. terrible SW
4. no memory for last settings

Nice to see that Nokia is making that extra push for a better camera phone and giving Sony some competition.

After reading the comments for the Nokia N86, with people quick to pixel-peep and bashing its noise reduction... I didn't read many positive posts, for Nokia's efforts?!

Posting 2 pictures from this phone hardly give anyone a chance to constructively critic the IQ... remembering that it ISN'T a camera, it's a phone first!

My challenge would be for the DPreview team to get out there and release a 'camera/phone' comparison... there's no shortage of choice out there and then (maybe) this Nokia N86 would have the opportunity to show what it can deliver (relatively speaking of course). Besides, you've come out with just about every other genres of comparison... which I have enjoyed & shared with up-coming camera friends/enthusiasts. And I'm sure the different brand names out there would love to get posted by DPreview's 'best pick of the bunch' class?!

So... what do you think DPreview? Are you up for that challenge?

I think it's unlikely, given how many cameras there are to test, right now.

Also, if I can go the rest of my days without having to work out how to clamp a phone to a tripod and frame a shot, while being able to reach the relevant buttons again, then my life will be a happier one.

And I must stress, given how tiny the lens is, it's pretty impressive to make a 28mm equiv F2.4. However, as soon as you start advocating the use of a cameraphone in the place of a compact camera, then it's reasonable to compare the two on equal terms.

Hi Richard, it was good to talk a few weeks ago.

I don't believe Nokia are actively advocating the use of a camera phone in place of a compact camera. In our discussion I did however note that already, and for some time, there are many people who are using camera phones as their primary form of image capture. Granted I don't believe this applies to the majority of readers of a site such as dpreview today. This is the result of their choice to use what they believe meets their needs and what they find most convenient. For many, as a phone is with them all of the time, so is a camera. For the users of the N86 8MP the ability to capture and instantly upload content is one of the greatest benefits. Some may not see it that way based on their own preferences. However, when you are next in a tourist hot spot, place of interest or concert to name just a few examples, stop for a second and take a look around you. I think you'll be surprised at the number of camera phones in use. This is the case for highly developed markets such as the UK. In markets such as China and India it's quite a different story where for many a camera phone is their very first camera.

None of this is about compiling an argument as to which is better. For some it's about the most convenient solution to hand, for others it’s the reassurance they have the very best form of capturing according to their usage preferences and interest in photography overall. I'll use myself as an example for a moment (ok it's only a sample of 1) . I own a Nikon DSLR system as well as a Canon Ixus. A few years ago the Nikon would be used to ensure the best quality. I like to feel that if I take a great shot that I could create a stunning print to hang on the wall. My camera phone being for those spontaneous and unexpected situations. Whilst the Ixus was used for everything in between. In other words I'd use the Ixus when I thought there might be an opportunity but wasn't confident enough to warrant the lugging of my SLR, but wanted better quality than my camera phone of the moment would deliver. As time and technology has advanced when we sit down to enjoy the reliving of the occasion it has become more and more apparent that the gap is closing. For me this has meant the Ixus goes with me less and less and in it's place the improving camera phone is used more and more.

When I think back to the early days of digital cameras and when film still ruled the situation was very similar. Rather than DSLR, digital compact, camera phone, it was film SLR, film compact, digital camera. I believe in such cases convenience of the solution plays an enormous role just as it has done with other technologies. Take music. Many argue that vinyl is better than CD and CD better than download, but which is most popular? And why might that be? Convenience and accessibility perhaps?

So, going back to the N86 8MP, again for many it's not about saying which is best from a purist perspective but perhaps what people find more convenient and therefore compelling. You may be interested to know that according to an estimate at the end of 2008 the number of camera phones in use was 1.9 billion, it's amazing how fast this market is developing.

Nothing new here. Already with my E90, did find that the zoom feature makes any advantage, when shooting for MMS message.

and for cameras, I do have two DSLR systems more than 10 mpix and for real photos, 2 rollfilm systems with smaller - 1,5x FX sensor and the other, close to double that.

I love my 3GS iPhone camera's Tap 2 Focus feature! Also set's exposure and WB at that selected point. For me it's perfect for all of those quick shots I need to illustrate points that I'm making in my various message boards.

The BEST camera is the one that you have with you ... and I always have my phone with me ... so I'm happy with my 3GS's video and photo capabilities. I also own a LX2, LX3, Canon 50D and Rebel XTi ... but also do a lot of shooting with Arri, Panavision, RED, etc. :-)

If cell phones become as powerful as compact cameras, great. But for me, the question: should my camera also be my phone?

Should my camera be subject to a contract with a mobile operator? I guess, if the concept of disposable camera appeals to you then why not.

I'm perfectly happy with my small Sony Cybershot T100. I LOVE it. It's convenient and holds in a pocket.

I also enjoy the more technical side of photography, playing with optics and doing panoramic views with a D700 with a good 24-70mm f/2.8 ... THAT, I don't think a cellphone can emulate - at least, not yet!!!

In the end, it's all about glass and optics!

I own a 40D but would love a phone with a decent camera.
My N95 takes reasonably good pics, but what puts me off using it is the massive delay in opening up the camera.
Then there is the massive shutter lag, so there is no chance of getting that spontanious shot.
I'm not sure how they have progressed over the last year or so, but the one thing these phone manufacturers need to concentrate on is speed of operation. IE from selecting the phones camera mode to capturing the image.
Only then will it be of any use as a camera.

Thank you Richard & Damian for responding!

To Richard... while there are probably many more cameras (only) out there to test, I would have to agree with Damian; look around at concert, sporting event... count the number of camera phones versus P&S or SLR... you could be quite surprised, there is a significant market out there. And I would assume that if there’s a market out there, then DPreview would be interested in reaching it?

I would like to point out that about a couple years ago I asked Phil (Mr. DPreview): Why don't you do SLR lens reviews?
(http://forums.dpreview.com/...forums/read.asp?forum=1030&message=20865056)

Phil did respond, stating DPreview doesn’t review lenses (back in Nov2006) and added that they do include several samples pictures with their camera reviews… samples are a far cry from a detailed review, which is what I was hoping for.

Today (to my delight), DPreview has been releasing fantastic detailed reviews of various SLR lenses!

For some clarification, I too shoot most of my pictures with my Nikon D200 and for those times when I either can afford the space/weight/risk to lug my DSLR, I shoot with my Canon P&S… and for those times when I have neither camera; I ALWAYS have my cell phone, with what I like to call my ‘emergency’ camera! :)

For those complaining about your cellular camera lag… if you’ve had a compact camera for more than 5 yrs… then you all remember that they had horrible response times. But, if enough of us complain about it and there’s a market for it, then those camera engineers will resolve these issues.

Camera phones will only improve in responsiveness, IQ, ISO-noise… while physics won’t allow them to replace DSLR’s, they may give compact (or ultra-compacts) a run for their money!

While I have owned several Nokia phones in the past ~15yrs; I currently use a Sony K850i… and I too am not happy with its responsiveness… that’s why I can’t wait for the next better camera phone; who knows, if Nokia gets ahead of the rest, I will gladly return to them for my next purchase.

Finally, I read a comment about whether phones & cameras should be merged… I think it’s safe to say that there is a vast majority of consumers wanting to merge/combine more of their technologies into more compact & convenient gadgets.

I admire Nokia development, but its size is not convinced. For everyday carry, I prefer my Canon IXUS85IS (SD 770IS) with slim Samsung phone (with dial pad).

If I want, the today perfect smart(touch)phone to me is IPhone 3GS.

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